Friday, June 26, 2009

Camera, Hebrew, Duggars, the Texas job and other random unrelated updates

The job in Texas didn't pan out, so we're still looking. And bummed.

In lighter news - My camera is finally back! Woo hoo! I have REALLY missed it and am so glad it's home! The repair was covered under warranty, so that was nice.

I'd REALLY like to learn Hebrew and be able to translate the original Hebrew manuscripts myself. Then there wouldn't be this "which version of the Bible do YOU read?" crap, and I could know exactly what the interpretation was supposed to be, based on the context, Hebrew language, and time it was written. *sigh*

So I like the "18 Kids and Counting" show, ok? I know it's silly, but I really do like that show. I like that they are wholesome and God-fearing. It's amazing to see how well they get along and how peaceful they all are. You don't see them get really stressed out or yell and scream at their kids ... I mean I know they have rough times too, and I know their family isn't perfect, but they just all seem so JOYFUL. The Duggars are a family that I enjoy watching. I'm beginning to look at their way of life and wonder if they aren't on to something. Their children don't watch much TV and only have strictly monitored access to the internet. They dress very modestly, and all the girls wear dresses. All the women have long hair. All the men tuck their shirts in and have short hair. They spend a lot of time with their children. They homeschool, teach, work, and play together. Everyone in the family has chores. The older siblings learn responsibility and family orientation and help take care of the younger ones - which I think simultaneously teaches them compassion and caring while they dote on their brothers and sisters. They seek out Scripture as an answer for just about everything, and they are incredibly financially wise.

I'd also like to point out that by "today's standards" the Duggar kids are VERY deprived. They don't have iPods, don't watch Hannah Montana, don't listen to secular music, don't go to see secular movies, and they don't all have their own computers and cell phones either. But in the same token, the Duggar kids are compassionate, well-behaved, don't smart off to their parents, and aren't self-centered. Concidence?? I think not.

So I got to thinking, what if they are doing things RIGHT and I'm missing the boat here somewhere?? So I started scouring the internet to find out more about their beliefs. They are Independent Southern Baptist and are part of the Quiverfull Movement, and get a lot of their beliefs from IBLP and Bill Gothard - although they are not rigid Gothardites (which is a good thing). They believe in having as many children as the Lord gives them, which is following the "Quiverfull" Movement.
QM quotes the verse from Psalms 127:3-5
"Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:
they shall not be ashamed,
but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate."

So I got to looking around wondering if I'm not doing the right thing by not wearing dresses all the time and by cutting my hair. I mean, if the Scripture specifically says to do things a certain way, I'd like to do them that way. But Scripture can also get misinterpreted. I found an AWESOME site that deals with just that. The long hair, the dresses, etc. 1 Timothy 2:9 says "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array" ... And there's the verse from Deuteronomy 22:5 where it talks about women not weaing "that which pertaineth to a man" as it is an abomination to God. I read these things and I am intrigued. I want to know that the ORIGINAL Hebrew meant on these things. To know that you have to take into account the era and the fashion and things that were going on at that time.

Then I came across this website, which delves into the Hebrew words and the meaning of the times, and it's wonderful!! .... One of the best websites I've come across in a long time. Incredibly informative. Fabulous read. I believe they have a blog too, which I'll connect to my blog when I find it. ... And since you might not read it, I'll sum up. The "pertaineth to a man" is a Hebrew term that means "military gear" such as guns and armor, so it doesn't mean that women can only wear dresses. The long hair simply means "long hair" not "never cut hair" and it doesn't mean that you can't be godly without having long hair as a woman either. Take the time to read the articles on that site. Really, they're eye-opening, full of historical info, and just altogether an enlightening read.

So ... while I do think that being fruitful and multiplying is definitely a command from God, and that having a "quiver full" of children is a blessing to be desired, I also realize that because I have to have c-sections, it would be unwise for us to just have as many kids as we can. Too many repeat c-sections can kill a woman if the scar on the womb gets too weak and bursts during pregnancy (OUCH!). I think that people these days are FAR too concerned about "well I want to have a nice house later, and a nice savings, and a Lexus, and a boat and (fill in the blank) so I don't want to have too many kids ..." and it's all about ME ME ME ME ME. It should be about family, about relationships, about furthering the Kingdom. What good is your retirement money if all you use it for is yourself? None of your trips to Jamaica are inherently sinful by any means, but they also do absolutely NOTHING which will survive through the "refining fire" of Judgment Day. (1 Cor.3 :9-15) You cannot take your nice car, new computer, up-to-date technology or personal belongings with you when you die. BUT YOU CAN TAKE YOUR FAMILY. If you teach your loved ones to follow Christ, then when you all die, you aren't cut off forever, but will get to see eachother again. It stands to reason then, that RELATIONSHIPS are far more important than THINGS. And in today's society, we are teaching our kids (through iPods and the ever-increasing pursuit of STUFF) that being alone is good, that listening to your music instead of talking to your neighbor is normal, and that saving up money - or spending it - to get all new things all the time is perfectly ok! Not that getting new things is bad, but when it becomes more important to have the latest version of some new technology than it is to spend time with our children ... we are missing the point of LIFE.

Anyhow, I got totally off track there. So, no, I won't only be wearing dresses. BUT I think I am going to take a new perspective on shopping. If we are to dress MODESTLY, and not with "costly array" then we need to realize that women are shop-a-holics and apparently, have always been! Even back to Bible times! God knew that we would want to spend lots of money to look pretty and be fashionable and I really just feel like if you go overboard on it - you're not being modest, you're being sinful. How you look on the outside should never be SOOOO important that you spend all your time and money and thoughts on it. If you spend more money and especially TIME on clothes/makeup/accessories than you do on things pertaining to the Kingdom of God ... then one item obviously outweighs the other and the scales have tipped ... can anyone say, idolatry? I do believe that "fashion" is an idol that should be cast down. Not that you can't ever get new clothes, or that you can't get nice clothes! That's ridiculous. But when it becomes an OBSESSION, when you can't go out of the house unless you're dressed to the nines, when how you look on the outside is something you constantly fuss over ... then I feel that this is when it's NOT modest.

Wow, I really can ramble on for awhile, huh? *sigh* I guess I'm just coming to a spiritual and emotional and nutritional and family-oriented revolution right now. My heart and brain are teeming with possibilities for the future. I think on the whole, our family is headed toward a much more conservative and natural approach toward EVERYTHING, including how we dress and teach our daughters to dress. And I don't know, that might involve "courtship" instead of dating as our girls age - that's something we've yet to discuss.

The main thing is - I don't want to endanger my children's futures by not giving them enough boundaries and love and attention, and at the same time, I don't want to be so strict and overbearing that I push them into rebellion either. It's a fine line to walk. I pray that God gives us the strength to parent our children using HIS love and grace and discipline.

I'll probably post more on this later. :) I can't wait to see comments!!


Elizabeth said...

I just wanted to let you know that Ethel Kennedy had roughly 12 c-sections, and came out ok. I just thought that might help you some. My husband and I practice being quiverfull, and it is a blessing, although pregnancy is a pain to me, the blessing of several babies is trualy a blessing!! All birthgiving is dangerous, and you could die, or we could have a Downs baby, but the point for us, is trusting the Lord, as He is the giver of life, and He wants to bless us with children. I'm not trying to criticize by any means, just inform. We don't however wear dresses all the time, or have super long hair. I agree with you that those things are not necessarily mandated in the Bible, but are not a bad thing either. I definitely aspire to be modest, and keep my girls modest. But, homeschooling and being quiverfull are things that I believe to be grounded in strong biblical principle, and perhaps even mandated! It's great that you are taking the time to research for yourself, and search the scriptures. So many people just write things off and say, oh, that is not for me!! The husband is the key. Ask him what he thinks about these things.
I hope you don't take these comments as offensive! I merely want to help, if you are wanting information about these things! I hope you have a blessed day! If you ever have questions, I'd be happy to answer them!

Jenn said...

I love that show too! Elizabeth likes to watch it as well...kinda throws off the whole limit tv thing, haha....Although I couldn't live their lifestyle personally, I do admire them for it. John is even impressed with how well behaved their children are and how they are financially free. You should look into their "financial guru" who's name escapes me right now, or Dave Ramsey. I also know the Duggars have a book or two out that tells their story and answers questions about how they get things done. I'd much rather you aspire to them than be all hippied out! I'd worry about you less...they go to the doctor and the dentist! ;)

Drew said...

If you are serious about learning Hebrew talk to me about it. I even have textbooks for you from when I took Hebrew. I have even more material for learning Greek, which is where I would recommend starting.

However, we need to talk about textual criticism before you start learning Hebrew or Greek. Otherwise you may find biblical translation disheartening - but it doesn't have to be with a proper framework.

Also, if you want to learn more about ancient Greek and Hebrew culture, I have books for that as well.

Learning these things will open up the Scripture to you on a whole new level; but it will also open up whole new questions. Questions are good, but challenging (of course.)

Anyway, if you really want to talk about these things, talk with me! I spent seven years in school for this, after all...

Shanna said...

Having a lot of children is a pretty special and unique thing these days. But there's definitely something to be said for the quality time that is possible in small families. Kids like I was would get lost in the shuffle of a big family; home was the one place where I didn't have to compete for adult attention. I don't think that the Bible mandates large families, small families, or having children at all. None of those things made it into the 10 commandments or Jesus' 2 (love God and each other). Be fruitful and multiply is, I think, a general command for humankind rather than a specific command for each individual. So, I think that's something that we all just have to figure out for ourselves.

I think that the most important thing is to love God and love each other and to teach that to the next generation. And to pray like mad for God's presence in our lives. And to rely on the grace of Christ to cover our mistakes.

And I'm glad that your teaching those precious girlies to value the most important things in life!

Elizabeth said...

I wholeheartedly agree that God does not mandate that you should have lotsw of children. Many women cannot have many children, or any. I think what needs to be evaluated is whether or not it is our right to tell God that we don't want any more, or that we have justified not having any more. Is He the author of life or not? That is the question that hubby and I felt compelled to answer after our fourth child when we felt like being done. I have since had 3 more, and I feel so blessed that we chose not to hinder His blessings. Do we choose what to trust God in? Just some thoughts to be considered! It's not about having lots of children, although that can be a byproduct, it is simply about trusting God, and accepting what He clearly says in the Bible is a blessing and never a curse!

Laura said...

Pregnancy is a pain to me too. UGH. And I think we are going to pray hard about it. I know that Matt and I would each like to have a somewhat large family, but at the same time - we want to have the time to spend individual time with each child. I think four is our determined amount, and possibly 5 if we feel that God wants us to have a 5th one. I've just always felt called to have FOUR kids, for some strange reason. But I'm open to more, if it's healthy and wise to do so, and if we feel God calling us to.

We are definitely going to homeschool. That's been one of our dreams for quite awhile.

I'm contemplating a bit of a lifestyle change at the moment. Far less electronic involvement.

I don't think that all secular music is evil, by any means. But it's also not pure or virtuous, usually. Phil 4:8 - "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

I think what I'm saying is that we are probably going to switch to mostly Christian or classical music. We certainly won't disallow secular music, because it's not inherently sinful or wrong to listen to, we will just PREFER the godly type. And I'm thinking of shutting off cable entirely, and only letting Kyleigh watch Veggietales and Christian programming. Not because secular shows like "Dora the Explorer" or "Backyardigans" are wrong or sinful, because they aren't, but because we will PREFER to watch something that brings God glory.

This will be a slow switchover, I rather think. But I'm certainly headed that way.

And Jen - I do go to the doctor and dentist and take my children too. They just recently went for checkups, and so did I. :) I just don't think that doctors and man-made drugs are the first place to turn when GOD Himself has made such a wide variety of plants and herbs that work naturally, WITH our bodies, the way He intended. But I won't put my kids' health in jeopardy just because I don't fully trust doctors, I promise. If they need medical attention, they WILL get it, immediately, no questions asked.

Laura said...

Oh, and I think a "full quiver" is interpretable too. Hee hee! Perhaps my quiver is full at 4 or 5, rather than 18!! :)

I just REALLY want to give my husband a son. So I hope we can have at least one boy in our quiver! :)

Elizabeth said...

Argh.. I just wrote this long comment, and somehow it got lost before it "took". Anyhow, let me try again. I know exactly what you are saying..we also have been evaluating the things that we watch/listen to, and participate in. God is daily showing us the way that He has for us. Sometimes it's painful, especially when you have a habit, and your kids have a habit, and they don't neccessarily see the wisdom in your decisions!
I hope you didn't feel from my comments that I am trying to condemn you for not being "quiverfull". I never intend to do that. Just to show others that I once had the same thoughts, as did my husband, and God changed our hearts, before we had already done anything permanent! I just like to see people really investigate these things, before it becomes a regret later, that God was trying to call them, and they didn't hear. Does that make sense :-). It's not an easy road, and I'm tempted to "take it back" sometimes, but I wouldn't. My children are such a blessing to me, and I've become acutely aware that there are other blessings that may never exist, if I let myself get in the way! Aside from the Bible, the books we read were The Full Quiver, and Be Fruitful and Multiply. I think your quiver is whatever God deems it to be, whether that is 5 or 20! Oh, and you mentioned Philippians 4:8, that was ironic, because on my homeschool blog, I have been discussing that verse, and every day talking about a different one of those things that God admonishes us to think about. I haven't gotten much participation yet, but it has been great for me to meditate on those things daily! GOd Bless!

Laura said...

Elizabeth - I am SOOOOOOOO not worried/offended/etc about anything you've said. No worries!! :)

I used to follow allopathic (modern western) medicine blindly until God changed my heart there too. So I totally understand about that. And I would have never in a MILLION years thought that I would want to be a homeschooling mom, but God changed my heart (and my husband's!) there too.

You'll have to scroll down on my blog entries and see my entry from May 22 "Back to Bible Times" or something like that. See what you think. :)

Pam said...

hey sweetie--- just wanted to comment on your blog....just be careful about looking at this family on TV and thinking they have it all. There was a family at church when my kiddos were young and I looked up to them and watched them and thought they were the "perfect family". All I wanted was for our family to be like theirs. No one was more shocked than me when the husband left his wife for another man. I know you remember that.
Also, ditto to Shannas comment on quality time. I talked to a woman who had 6 children and told her I couldn't figure out how she did it. I didn't have enough quality time with my kiddos and I just had two. She said, "Oh, I don't have time for any quality time with any of my kids." She home schooled hers too, so she was alarmingly busy with housework, cooking, dishes, groc shopping, laundry, preparing for the teaching, etc. Nothing against having a large family or home schooling, but the people who don't choose that for their family aren't wrong in any way, just chose a different path.
I always wanted 4 kids - was from a family of 4 kids. Even planned on another after miscarriage of 3rd baby, but couldn't say I was ready for another baby a year later, so we decided no more. I have never felt like we made a bad decision or one in which God was not happy with. So, to make my point, I think that such a decision is between a husband and wife knowing their limitations, whether it be financial, time, energy, patience, emotional or physical needs of the children they have. So...I guess what I'm trying to say is to be careful of who you are looking up to...especially if they are connected to the media. May not be all made up, but it's not all natural either. When we know we are being watched, we are on our best behavior. Just look at the things that matter - not clothing or hair or anything like that - things that affect the soul of a person, and just do the best you can with what you have.
Also, gotta prepare for the future - being good stewards. My brother is about to turn 69 and he has nothing---no savings, no retirement, no insurance (life or health), no job, a mortgaged house. When he had surgery to save his life 3 years ago, he had to spend all he had $5000 to be able to be flown from Midland to Houston to have the surgery to save his life. He has had to borrow money from his 3 daughters for more than 10 years to make ends meet and even borrowed money from my sister after her husband died and she got the insurance money. Had he planned and taken care of those needs at an earlier time in his life, he wouldn't be in this position. It has been a financial and emotional drain on his daughters and their husbands and an embarrassment to him.
All I am saying is that we are to be good stewards and make good decisions and just do the best we can with God at the center of our lives. Living our lives like other people because it is working for them is not what God wants. He just wants us to live our lives for him whether we home school, have one child or 18 children or no children at all. It's between me and Him, period.

Pam said...

I rambled and am continuing....back in Bible times, men and women wore the same basic attire ---- looked like dresses! The rich men also adorned themselves....

Elizabeth said...

Again no offense to Pam either, but if we as Christians based every decision on what we felt our limitations were, we likely wouldn't do a lot of things that God wants us to do. That is why He tells us in the Bible that we can do all things through Christ who strenghtens us, because He knows that we often feel like we aren't going to be able to handle it. I have 7 children and homeschool, and God provides me with time to find quality time with all my children. Is it a challenge, yes, but it takes comittment, and sacrifices sometimes. God provides what we need, when we follow him. Now, I do agree with Pam about how we should not look at other families, and idolize them, which we moms tend to want to do. Even the best looking families have their problems. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. We need to just lift each other up. And I also agree with Pam in saying that these decisions are between us , our husbands and God. But, I think I already covered that. Anyhow, I wanted to say that I am glad that you weren't offended by my thoughts, and that I do hope that you end up having a boy some day, because I have loved my little momma's boys. Girls are great too though! Again, if Pam reads this, I'm not trying to offend, just giving food for thought. I'm also not judging, just trying to encourage! In Him!

Drew said...

Elizabeth, I may be misreading you - or rather, reading into your statements what I have heard other people say - but I think it's very important to recognize that God's will for us is not a pre-determined blueprint but is instead dynamic and relational. That is, God actually respects us enough to allow us to make choices and to endure/enjoy the consequences of those choices, even as he desires that we *seek* his guidance.

In other words, if you don't use some type of contraceptive you are going to keep having children until your body gives out, regardless of whether or not it's "God's will." Counting on God to bend the laws of the universe to suit you is not fundamentally different than playing Russian Roulette and "having faith" that you won't get the bullet. Granted, a child is decidedly more awesome than a bullet in the brain pan, but the principle is the same. You cannot abdicate your God-given responsibility to make choices.

Choosing to have seven children is commendable, but suggesting that someone who chose otherwise was somehow less faithful to God's will is, at best, naive. More likely, it is destructive.

Philippians 4:13 does not promise us super-powers. Paul was promising that we could have the strength to endure any sort of persecution for the cause of Christ, not that we can magically create extra time.

I'm sorry if you think this is harsh; tact isn't my best skill. I know you weren't trying to be destructive, but a faith that denies human choice is a house of cards. You don't want to be there when the deck comes crashing down, trust me.

Elizabeth said...

Ok first off, I don't think you really read my comments. I was never saying that anyone was lacking faith if they choose differently. Only that it is something that every couple should genuinely research, and seek God's will before making a permanent decision.
Also, you have a misunderstanding of my husband and I. We are not ignorant people who don't understand who God works (It sounds as if that is what you believe about anyone who doesn't choose to only have a couple of children). I hope I'm wrong about that. We are doing what we are sure God wills for our lives. Birth control has many medical consequences in and of itself, so it really is one sided to say that a woman's body is just going to wear out, because she wasn't smart enough to realize that she shouldn't have more children. Again, this is what it sounds like you are saying, and you have a misunderstanding of me. When we get to heaven, we will all realize that there were areas of our lives in which we could have exhibited more faith. I only want for more Christian couples to genuinely seek God's will in this area. Of course God gives us choices. That is one way that he exhibits love for his children. But, there are also choices that can be made in selfishness, that are not neccessarily in God's will for our lives. I'm simply saying, let's not make that mistake in this area of our lives. If God has shown you and your wife, through His word, and through your research, and speaking to your hearts that you are ok in not having any more children, than that is wonderful, but I have seen so many people make hasty selfishly based decisions about having more children, and years later, regretted that they didn't allow God to bless them with more. Also, I've heard many say that if God wants me to have more, than I will just get pregnant on birth control! That logic does not ring true to me either. Of course this is possible, but God doesn't want to have to force the door open, He wants us to willingly accept His blessings.
Chemical birth control can kill babies, and it has medical consequences for the woman on it. I am at a high risk for stroke, and birth control ups that risk for me. Surgical birth control also can have devastating consequences, so I find those options to potentially be just as irresponsible, as what you are saying that we are, by allowing more children into our lives. Each couple has to choose together, with God's blessings what is the right thing to do. I am only wanting others to understand why we have chosen what we have. It is always frustrating for me to be called irresponsible and now destructive. I suppose from now on I will simply have to keep my thoughts to myself. Perhaps that is better anyhow. I apologize if I said something that was offensive. I was simply trying to encourage others to remember to seek the Lord, as He may suprise you with blessings that you didn't realize were there. Sigh....I'll go back to keeping my mouth shut about such things! I'm sorry Laura.

Drew said...

I did read your posts, but I've also heard other Quiverfull apologists argue these points before, so some of what I'm responding to is probably coming through them rather than your posts. So let me ask this to be sure I'm not making assumptions, do you agree with the following statements:

"When we allow God to plan our families we can rest assured to finish with God’s perfect number."

"God’s idea of the 'perfect family' [is] the number and spacing He chooses rather than our choice."

"Using any form of birth control is refusing to accept God's will for our life."

The first two are direct quotes from, the third is my paraphrase of a paragraph in the same document. I am not trying to trap you, but I may have been too presumptuous in my earlier post. It is not the entirety of the Quiverfull message that I am against, only one aspect: the nature of “God’s Will.”

Drew said...

Oh, I forgot to mention, the second statement is actually a question in the document, but I think it's quite plain that the expected answer (in the document) is "Yes."

Here's the link:

Pam said...

Elizabeth--- I LOVE children- wish I could have had more. My son had some learning disabilities and I spent approx. 3 hours every afternoon with him on his homework. I have no regrets about that time, but if I had more children, someone would have suffered from time restraints. We owned our own business and I had to work. It was not my choice. I worked only during the hours my children were at school until they were older.
Every comment left by me or you or anyone is based on knowledge of self or someone we know, and cannot possibly be a situation that can be attributed 100% to anyone else, so whether we agree or disagree is okay. EX: the Duggers with 18 kids---may be perfect for them, may be a big problem for a few of their kids when grown for one reason or another...hopefully they all have their childhood and don't have so much responsibility helping raise their younger siblings that they lose that.
Our decisions were made together with God as the center of our family. We feel that His wisdom lead us to our decisions. To have continued to have children just because we love them may have been completely out of God's plan for us.
Just a note...we were foster parents for 5 years. Something we may not have been able to do with a lot of children. Although, the lady I knew with the 6 children at that time was a foster mother too for a short time. They went on to have 10 children, all of which are wonderful wonderful wonderful people--one now in Heaven. As far as I know, none of them have suffered, although a few of them have told me that they do not plan to have that many children.
What is right for you and what is right for me are different. I do not see you as doing anything wrong by having a large family. I do see those who have had no family or a small family as doing wrong.
I don't feel that I, as a Christian, base my decisions on what I think my limitations are. I feel that God gives all of us wisdom when we pray for it and that He leads us where we need to be, what we need to do, and what decisions we need to make for ourselves and our families. God works through it all - even our limitations because we all have them, whether we think we have them or not. To some it may appear to be limitations stopping us, to others, wisdom leading us. Only God knows, because we are all given into His hands.

Pam said...

correction---last paragraph---I said I do see those who have no family or a small family.....I meant to say I do NOT see those who have no family....

Elizabeth said...

Yes, Drew, I do believe that God should be involved in the planning of our families. We are talking about the creation of a life that could be raised for his glory, but if you have searched the Lord in the matter, and genuinely feel that He is guiding you to stop having children, then the God, through the Holy Spirit is guiding you in the size of your family, and therefore it would be perfect for you. For my husband and I, we feel that for now, God is calling us to give up the plans to him, and if I get pregnant I do, if I don't, I don't. As far as birth control, I do think that chemical birth control should be avoided by Christians, because of it's abortive properties, and the health risks that it can pose to mothers. I am not a fan of surgical birth control either, as it can also cause many health problems. Now, as far as that is concerned though, I feel much more adamant about chemical birth control. Yes, many pregnancies can affect a mother's health. I do wonder about surgical measures, one, in their permanant nature, if the decision was made hastily, and two in that you are taking it upon yourself to "fix" something that God created for a purpose. Again, I'm not judging, I just question that aspect of it. I am not neccessarily opposed to more natural means, however, I'm not a big fan of them either. My hubby and I don't ever claim to have it all figrued out, but we studied the scriptures for a very long time, and prayed fervently, and researched the many medical aspects, and came to the conclusion that God was leading us to travel this path in faith. I am not a spokesperson for the Quiverfull movement, I only use the term because that is what people seem to be familiar with because of the Duggars. I don't think any decision this major should be taken lightly or done simply because someone else does it. Pam, I fully understand where you are coming from. It did sound in your comments like it was limitations that get in the way, and I only wanted to encourage, that often God uses us above and beyond what we would think to be our limitations. I'm really sorry if that came off as chastising. Again, it was meant to simply be an encouragement.
This is why I hardly ever talk about this with people, because people always think that I am accusing them, or saying I think I know better. Only God knows what He wants for our family. Yes, we have choices, but He also does not just want us to make half cocked decisions about such major life issues. He wants to guide us in what we do. Pam, I did not intend to offend you, and if I did, I am truly sorry. I too was a foster parent, and I know what kind of heart for children it takes to do that. For us, that was part of accepting the children into our lives that God brought to us. I only started this discussion as a means to help there be some understanding. I know people who make haphazard decisions about having children, and yes, even selfish decisions. They are Christians, but they don't bother to seek God's will for their families in the matter. I never intend to say that that is what somone that I don't even know is doing. So, I wanted to tell Laura about how we came to this conclusion, because she sounded like she was genuinely curious about it. I also said that it is something that she and hubby should seek God's will on. So, that is all I can think of to say for now. We personally take this decision one day, one baby at a time. We make choices, and for now, our choice is to allow God to bless us with more children. And if I offended anyone by anything I have said, then I am truly sorry. I have actually cried over the idea that I offended people on this issue. That is also why I think I will have to go back to never talking about it to people, as I seem to be vastly misunderstood when I do.

Elizabeth said...

One last thought I had, after I pushed the button is hubby says this all the time...God is never in Heaven wringing His hands and saying "why did they do that? They ruined my plans", God will work His prefect plan out no matter what decisions we make...that has always been comforting to me, when I get all worked up about whether we are doing the right thing, in any area of our lives! It is simply our job to seek to be in His Will. He will take care of the rest.

Drew said...

I never intended to imply that you are somehow sinning or otherwise "outside of the will of God" or anything like that. I certainly didn't want you to cry over this! So I'll stop here.

Jana Green said...

Hey, I saw you lurked onto my blog tonight......

I've been missing you, but i hope you had a good anniversary.

Look me up sometime.

(Not gonna comment about the post. Seems you have your fair share of those. I do have to say that pregnancy is not fun for me either, although i have great feelings when I remember it.)

dsv05a said...

Can I get an "AMEN?" AMEN! Thank you for admitting that expensive clothing and make-up are not good. I'm pretty sure you have verbally smacked me on that subject a time or two. I probably deserved it. About having a multitude of children, I find it hard to reconcile birthing enough kids to start a new country and Yeshua's recommendation to not even marry. Seems slightly incompatible by moral standards if you ask me. But you didn't ask me. Sorry about the job in SA not working out. That bums me big time. Quiverfull. hahaha. Kids are weapons to be poked into your opponent's eyes. Sharpen your children. They may come in handy some day.